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Dry red rash under lip... :(

topic posted Mon, January 12, 2009 - 9:47 PM by  RJ
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So starting in November I have had this annoying red patch underneath and to the side of my bottom lip. It gets flaky and I have never experienced anything like it. I have been hoping that it would go away and I have been trying different remedies from nourishing oils to tea tree and even a bit of hydro cortisone....I even thought switching over to different natural skin care products would help

I would love some advice. It looks like dermatitis. Thanks!
posted by:
RJ
offline RJ
Phoenix
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  • Re: Dry red rash under lip... :(

    Tue, January 13, 2009 - 7:51 PM
    I tried tons of herbal remedies for something like this. In my case, it turned out to be perioral dermatitis. After about 6 months of nothing "natural" working, I went on antibiotics for 3 weeks, nixed any products I had with sodium lauryl sulfate in them(most toothpastes, liquid face washes and shampoos), and found a gentler sunscreen. It came back when I started using toothpaste with SLS in it again, and I had to retreat with antibiotics to get rid of it. Mine was caused by an overgrowth of unfriendly bacteria on the skin. Since SLS kills the good bacteria that keep the bad in check, it can cause this rash in sensitive people (usually women, usually starting in mid-twenties). Anyway, if you can't get rid of it with the following, bite the bullet and get antibiotics. The condition can spread around most of your face if it gets really bad, and it is itchy and gross.

    DON'T USE HYDROCORTISONE
    While it temporarily relieves the itch and rash, using it can make the condition MUCH worse.
    I think that because it's a steroid, it can depress your immune function, making the nasty bacterial overgrowth worse. I could be wrong on that, but I know hydrocortisone is bad bad bad for perioral dermatitis.


    Don't use hot water on your face. Try to turn the temp down to warm. I hate this solution, but it actually does help. Warm showers. Ppppfft.

    Check all products for sodium lauryl sulfate. If you're just using them on your hands, it's probably ok, but using it near your face is probably not good. Toothpastes usually have it. I use Jason; they are the only SLS free toothpaste I found that has fluoride. I couldn't find a shampoo that is SLS free that doesn't leave gross buildup after a few weeks. I have settled for washing my hair twice a week and keeping the soap off of my face as much as possible.

    Get a good sunscreen and use it religiously.

    If you go the antibiotic route, I don't recommend tetracycline. I got the only bad yeast infection I've ever had while on tetracycline, and burned my esophagus. It was icky all around. Lots of probiotics helped me heal up from that crap. Doxycycline is pricier but I found it considerably less unpleasant. Both are really cheap.
    • Re: Dry red rash under lip... :(

      Tue, January 13, 2009 - 9:07 PM
      I have to say that I hate antibiotics, but they sure have their place don't they! Yeeeuck, itchy red face.
      • Re: Dry red rash under lip... :(

        Tue, January 13, 2009 - 11:13 PM
        not meaning to come off as "preachy" but antibiotics should only be used under more dire circumstances.

        avoiding SLS, however, is an excellent idea and I would try eliminating it accordingly
        • Re: Dry red rash under lip... :(

          Wed, January 14, 2009 - 4:03 PM
          I agree with you. But having been through now 3 bouts of a sore throat that feels like I'm swallowing razor blades and having a rash all over my body (separate instances) antibiotics should be sought. I have been avoiding the doctor and prescriptive meds like the plague that they are, but when given the choice of an itchy red face and a 2 week course of antibiotics, I'm going with the pill.

          Also, its not the person who seeks medical treatment once a year and takes antibiotics once every five years that is the issue. Its prescribers who are giving people antibiotics for 5 year periods and that *hopefully* is an antiquated practice. One person taking one course of antibiotics doesn't create super bugs. One million people taking antibiotics and using antibacterial EVERYTHING causes superbugs.

          Seek medical attention when you need it. Use western medicine when it makes sense and don't let something get to the place where you are in a fair amount of suffering when it can be easily fixed. Sometimes tea tree isn't strong enough and it is NOT the best way to go.
          • Re: Dry red rash under lip... :(

            Wed, January 14, 2009 - 6:36 PM
            I beg to differ BUT only because I believe that in order to change a paradigm, status quo and/or re-wire thinking is to
            instigate a petit revolucion (not to be confused with petit mort ladies : ) )

            You, of course, are correct regarding the information about the over prescription of antibiotics for most things, including
            things which don't require them. Further, it is erroneous that one must complete an entire course of antibiotics as
            it only worsens the increase in antibiotic resistant strains (hence the nightmare that is MRSA) and yet it is what
            doctors tell you to do.

            There are many things one can to do lighten the viral / bacterial load on your immune system and, assuming
            ones immune system isn't already compromised, it should be the first course of action even in spite of discomfort.

            There are a number of ways one can strengthen their immune system and so it is with that thought and
            wanting to be a pro-active rather than reactive person, steps should be taken to daily supplement ones
            diet accordingly. Whether you choose to use something like IP-6 or prefer the likes of Echinacea angustifolia
            (purpurea is endangered and/or extripated in many areas) or even Andrographis paniculata (aka Indian Echinacea)
            or zinc/vitamin c/ garlic combinations is up to you.

            Obviously there will be situations which are more dire and/or cannot be tolerated (though some people's ideas
            of "toleration" are very low) that may require antibiotics become part of the course of action. I understand that.

            My husband is a research scientist who happens to have gotten his PhD in Pathology and he LOVES to share
            many a horror story as well as offer some balance to my "herbally weighted" preferences.

            The tricky part here is that it is always important to get a diagnosis of something before taking a course of
            action as, the wrong course could spell trouble. As an example, there are many culprits that cause rashes
            from fungi to bacteria to parasites to allergies - there are even instances where rashes are actually skin
            skin cancer. Trying to guess these things is taking a risk. I'm always pro "seeing a doctor" first and then
            figuring out ways to remedy the illness.

            In any event, I am certainly not begging an argument :) just clarifying my position.

            May I ask what is causing your sore throat and rash?
            • Re: Dry red rash under lip... :(

              Wed, January 14, 2009 - 6:58 PM
              Also, I wanted to clarify that my commentary regarding Immune System support and antibiotic use was, indeed, a digression on my part and I realize that it wasn't addressing Somas "dry red rash" issue - apologies

              should the removal of possible allergens (SLS), which would indicate you have something akin to contact dermatitis, not work
              AND the application of things like Calendula Cream and/or Shea Butter not help either, you may wish to see a doctor.

              It may also behoove you to avoid any

              • Re: Dry red rash under lip... :(

                Thu, January 15, 2009 - 12:16 PM
                I am glad that your husband is so well rounded on the subject, however, I respectfully disagree with you. Why should I suffer needlessly? I have not taken a prescriptive medication in over 3 years and won't take one unless I absolutely have to, but I have SUFFERED for it. Needlessly suffered for it. I hear that you want to shift a paradigm and I hear that you want to make a change, but one baby going without antibiotics for an ear infection or me going without them for what I can only imagine was a terrible infection in my throat is wholly needless. All the herbs and cleansing etc... doesn't change the fact that in the moment they CAN be a useful tool. I get what you are saying and, like you I'd like the world to be a different place, but I am not sorry to say that when confronted with suffering, you should use a tool that works. If that tool be herbal, then so be it. If it be western medicine, then so be it.

                I get where you are coming from and I understand large chunks of Ayurveda as well as TCM. I believe that through diet, excercise and overall well being one can control the health and well being of their bodies, but why go through weeks or months of suffering when it could be taken care of in a week?? Why? To change a global empire of drug companies? To reverse the spread of superbugs? Go throw out all the hand sanitizer, antibiotics etc... and it does not change the fact that our world is what it is. Shift your paradigm, change your world, but understand that reality is what it is. This is where we are and what tools we have to deal with it. If I get a little bit of a cold, I'll tough it out and use other methods including but not limited to meditaion, herbs and dietary vitamin sources. If I break my arm or get a raging infection on my face, show me the western meds!!! Brew me some essiac, after my arm is set and the skin stops flaking off of my face.
                • Re: Dry red rash under lip... :(

                  Thu, January 15, 2009 - 2:11 PM
                  1) I wasn't directing anything towards you personally

                  2) Are you saying that you didn't get your rash / throat issued diagnosed? verbiage: "imagine was a terrible infection"

                  3) I never said I wanted people to go through months of suffering but the reality is that many people aren't willing
                  to address the problem in a manner which may cause them some discomfort - there is a reason why our world is in the
                  state it is in and it has to do with the fact that people are more willing to do what is fast and easy rather than what
                  may be the more far-sighted, better thing to do. (goes hand in hand with shopping locally, eating organic, recycling,
                  not driving et al)

                  *I am not speaking to medications which ARE beneficial in many, many cases of illness and my original
                  post, with regard to antibiotics ,was specific to the small "dry red rash under lip" mentioned here. the idea
                  that antibiotics were even suggested is a bit zealous at best and absurd at worst. I am NOT an enemy
                  of Western Medicine, let that be said.

                  4) Change a global empire of drug companies? Why is that a bad thing? Big Pharma is a cause of many
                  problems in our health care system nevermind the general health of individuals

                  5) Throw out all hand sanitizers? yes, of course, they only make matters worse. If necessary , try using
                  a little Thymol - it kills bacteria without causing resistant strains

                  I could go on but then it would make me a liar that I wasn't "beggin for argument". Plus it would make me
                  one of those people who hiijack threads (don't you dislike those people?) If you'd like to engage in further
                  discourse either PM me or start a new thread and thanks for engaging. Regardless of outcome, there
                  is always value to an energetic debate :)
              • Re: Dry red rash under lip... :(

                Mon, January 19, 2009 - 8:35 AM
                mmm. The SLS doesn't cause "contact dermatitis" so much as it creates an environment where bacterial community on skin gets off-kilter. "good" ones die out and "bad" ones take over. The bad ones cause a reaction. As of right now, we just don't have a great understanding of what "healthy" communities look like, so we don't have access to the organisms that need to recolonize the affected areas. The antibiotics are far from a perfect solution, but they knock down the population of "bad" bacteria enough that "good" ones can recolonize.
    • RJ
      RJ
      offline 92

      Re: Dry red rash under lip... :(

      Wed, January 14, 2009 - 6:02 PM
      Your description seems to fit my case....I have noticed that certain non healthy toothpastes at my boyfriends irritate it. And that is where the most toothpaste falls....I will keep my eye out for SLS! Thank you all!!
    • S
      S
      offline 33

      Re: Dry red rash under lip... :(

      Fri, January 16, 2009 - 11:44 PM
      "DON'T USE HYDROCORTISONE
      While it temporarily relieves the itch and rash, using it can make the condition MUCH worse.
      I think that because it's a steroid, it can depress your immune function, making the nasty bacterial overgrowth worse. I could be wrong on that, but I know hydrocortisone is bad bad bad for perioral dermatitis. "

      My doc also informed me that hydrocortisone also causes thinning of the skin, so should only be used for very short periods.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Dry red rash under lip... :(

    Wed, January 14, 2009 - 10:37 AM
    These things can always be tricky to diagnose.

    But if it started a while back in November, are there any products you were using then that you're still using now? Could something you're using on a daily basis be causing the reaction? If so, you might stop using those products (do it one at a time) for a several days to see if the red patch goes away. Constantly trying different remedies could make the situation worse if you're not sure what is causing it in the first place.

    If you think it might be bacterial, I sometimes get little infections in the corners of my mouth, (have been told it's the result of my overbite, more bacteria accumulates there) you might try some Neosporin, that always helps me when I get my break out, since it does have an over-the-counter antibiotic in it.
  • Re: Dry red rash under lip... :(

    Sat, January 17, 2009 - 2:33 PM
    Good suggestions here! Along with external applications, you may wish to try a liver detox, since many times the toxins come out of our skin instead of leaving where they are supposed to hehe! Look into it!

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